Topic Options
#537321 - 09/26/13 04:44 PM Horses castrated with no sedation!
Foxylady Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 580
http://www.marketwired.com/press-release...ing-1835019.htm

Read this if you open the link! It will make your evening! Talk about pathetic punishments!

Hobble these two a**holes and castrate them!

$125 and $1000 fines are you f********* kidding me!!!
Top
#537322 - 09/26/13 04:52 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
Blazer & Dusty Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 5295
Loc: Washago, ON
Holy crap!?
_________________________
-- Sarah
intheeventofafire <3
Top
#537323 - 09/26/13 05:02 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
Blazer & Dusty Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 5295
Loc: Washago, ON
A quick google suggests the Ramara man is a heavy horse teamster who deals in belgians. Poor horses. So stupid to do frown
_________________________
-- Sarah
intheeventofafire <3
Top
#537330 - 09/26/13 07:28 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
ANiftyOne Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 708
Loc: Ontario Canada
In my neck of the woods, but never heard of them.

Believe it or not, I had a farrier who believe in doing his own. Said a Mennonite taught him, and they can deal with it. After him telling me that he was no longer my farrier, I would have like to ask him how hed like it done.
Top
#538119 - 10/02/13 01:39 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: ANiftyOne]
HopewellCreekStables Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 06/13/08
Posts: 231
Loc: Breslau, Ontario, Canada
All male pigs are castrated with no sedation- they are sentient beings also; don't see any red flags there.
Top
#538126 - 10/02/13 02:15 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
CZF Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 5442
Loc: Hamilton, Ontario
I think cattle are done this way too, are they not? Can any cow people chime in? Or should I say bull/steer people? lol
_________________________
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars - Persian proverb
Top
#538150 - 10/02/13 05:10 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
L_Aird Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 355
Loc: Newtonville
Cattle are normally ringed when they are only a few days old....think small rubber band that is placed around the base of the testicles. It basically pinches off the blood and they eventually fall off. I've helped my husband do this to many young calves and they seem more distressed about being placed on their sides then being ringed.

The other way to do it on older steers is to pinch....I am not a fan of this one. It is normally done on older boys when their testicles are too big to ring. Basically, a special pinching tool is used (almost like pliers) to squeeze the testicles as hard as possible....making them mush inside, I would assume. This definitely causes them a lot for distress.

Neither method uses sedation.
Top
#538153 - 10/02/13 05:13 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
CZF Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 5442
Loc: Hamilton, Ontario
Yeah, the farmer I knew pinched them I think. frown He came up to the horse barn with cow $hit on his hat and I asked him what the heck he was doing that cow pooped on his head! He never washed it off either, just kept right on wearing his poo-poo hat. laugh
_________________________
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars - Persian proverb
Top
#538180 - 10/02/13 09:04 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: HopewellCreekStables]
Tiger Paws Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 3602
Loc: Strathroy, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: HopewellCreekStables
All male pigs are castrated with no sedation- they are sentient beings also; don't see any red flags there.


How do they castrate the female pigs? laugh
Top
#538184 - 10/02/13 09:10 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Tiger Paws]
Tiger Paws Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 3602
Loc: Strathroy, Ontario, Canada
And while we are on the topic of no sedation.

Everyday in hospitals all over this country, little boys are circumsised without sedation or anasethic.
Top
#538192 - 10/02/13 09:57 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: L_Aird]
bd Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 3143
Loc: Paris-Woodstock
Originally Posted By: L_Aird

The other way to do it on older steers is to pinch....I am not a fan of this one. It is normally done on older boys when their testicles are too big to ring. Basically, a special pinching tool is used (almost like pliers) to squeeze the testicles as hard as possible....making them mush inside, I would assume. This definitely causes them a lot for distress.

Neither method uses sedation.



A neighbor uses a scalpel and removes them rather than using the burdizzos (pinching tool). The only time the testicles are crushed using the pinching tool is when they are used by an incompetent operator.
They crush the spermatic cord and the blood vessels feeding the testicles causing a somewhat similar effect to the use of the elastic or surgical tubing without the loss of the scrotum.
wink
Top
#538197 - 10/02/13 10:20 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Tiger Paws]
Tickety Boo Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 1494
Loc: Ontario
Originally Posted By: Tiger Paws
And while we are on the topic of no sedation.

Everyday in hospitals all over this country, little boys are circumsised without sedation or anasethic.


Hear hear!
At least these horses lived, unlike the 100+ babies who die every year from circumcision complications. :-/
Top
#538203 - 10/02/13 11:02 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
Aricia Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 11/04/01
Posts: 7154
Loc: I intend to live forever... so...
frown Poor little gaffers. Wish people used their brains frown
Top
#538229 - 10/03/13 09:26 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
Foxylady Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 580
I don't agree with anything being done without sedation - we're not still in the dark ages are we!!!

Circumcision of little boys without sedation is, in my opinion, child abuse. No, I DON'T think its o.k. to hide behind your religion! If God didn't mean for you to use sedation why did he give you the brains to invent it in the first place.

Getting off my soap box and distancing myself from this one!


Edited by Foxylady (10/03/13 09:28 AM)
Top
#538261 - 10/03/13 10:57 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
toady123 Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1240
Loc: Stratford
On the off topic of male circumcision it's now considered an elective (paid) procedure. Many of my friends have opted not to bother, and those who have booked it as an elective procedure after they are home and every one has had local anesthetic used.

In the on topic I think castrating any animal without sedation is pretty cruel, and I agree that if you are up in arms about this (which is not really the norm) you should be really upset for animals who endure this as a regular course of practice.
Top
#538262 - 10/03/13 10:59 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
Foxylady Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 08/19/10
Posts: 580
Totally agree with Toady!
Top
#538270 - 10/03/13 11:21 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
CZF Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 5442
Loc: Hamilton, Ontario
I agree Foxy, I can't imagine how painful that would be.
_________________________
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars - Persian proverb
Top
#538277 - 10/03/13 11:34 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
briarhalo Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 1564
Loc: Clifford,ON
Where I lived in Holstein, there is a Mennonite who is quite well know for this. He charges a very small fee and comes highly recommended. People thought I was crazy going the vet route to do my guy a few years back. I asked them how they would feel....
Top
#538469 - 10/04/13 07:35 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
the sauce Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 1352
Loc: Toronto
I totally agree, toady!

I'm also against any castration without sedation/pain meds, regardless of how "short lived" the pain seems to be. I won't even have my horses done standing with imasculators, any colt I have will be done with the Lewellyn procedure.
Top
#538471 - 10/04/13 07:40 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
prospect Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 4704
Loc: port perry, ontario canada
they do circumcisions on babies without freezing.
_________________________
Warmblood/Draft Cross Sport Horses and Hay Feeders www.prospectequinefarms.com/hayfeeders.htm
Top
#538514 - 10/05/13 08:56 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
Strider Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 09/03/13
Posts: 59
We castrated all our male pigs very young without sedation and the dog had a feast. The vet did my horse without sedation in the 60's but I never forgot it and think it was just cruel. I would never consider it today.
We always pinched our bulls again when young and called it brain surgury. LOL
Top
#538515 - 10/05/13 09:00 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: L_Aird]
Strider Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 09/03/13
Posts: 59
Originally Posted By: L_Aird


The other way to do it on older steers is to pinch....I am not a fan of this one. It is normally done on older boys when their testicles are too big to ring. Basically, a special pinching tool is used (almost like pliers) to squeeze the testicles as hard as possible....making them mush inside, I would assume. This definitely causes them a lot for distress.

Neither method uses sedation.


They don't crush the testicles. They apply the pliers above the testicles to crush the cords leading from the testicles . Like a vasectimy?? only the cords
Top
#538550 - 10/05/13 03:11 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: toady123]
parked out Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 10/04/03
Posts: 744
Loc: canada
Exactly, Toady. Both my sons have been circumcised and they both had anesthetic, my youngest one slept through the entire procedure.
_________________________
fall off, get back on.

Top
#538574 - 10/05/13 09:23 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
painter Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 928
Loc: Oro-Medonte, Ontario
Calves are done with an elastic to basically "suffocate" the testicles... aka no blood flow supplied. The other ways are to crush the spermatic cord,the other way we do it is the same way male cats are done by opening the scrotum with a small incision, the cords and testicles are usually tied together, then the testicles are cut free.

Cattle are never given sedation, etc. Penicillin is usually given when the testicles are cut out.

I have never seen a single calf or bull/steer walk away in pain
_________________________
Calendar Girl
Luck of the Irish
Top
#538575 - 10/05/13 09:28 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: parked out]
SPRING Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 04/11/09
Posts: 139
Loc: Caledon, Ontario
Originally Posted By: parked out
Exactly, Toady. Both my sons have been circumcised and they both had anesthetic, my youngest one slept through the entire procedure.


Their wives will thank you wink

We had a farm pig and he went to the vet and was under anesthetic while being castrated, he was older. The baby pigs just get them pulled off when they are born.
Top
#538576 - 10/05/13 09:38 PM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: SPRING]
the sauce Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 1352
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: SPRING
Originally Posted By: parked out
Exactly, Toady. Both my sons have been circumcised and they both had anesthetic, my youngest one slept through the entire procedure.


Their wives will thank you wink


If their wives are enlightened, they won't care either way wink

Anyone who thinks it doesn't hurt to have an elastic put around a body part until it dies and falls off, needs to try putting an elastic around their finger and see how it feels... Necrotic tissue is so unbelievably painful...I've been through it. I can only hope they ban this way of castration sooner rather than later. I wish I could find the journal article I read where they assessed the different methods of castration and their degree of pain...rings were the worst by far.
Top
#538590 - 10/06/13 12:57 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: the sauce]
bd Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 3143
Loc: Paris-Woodstock
Originally Posted By: the sauce

Anyone who thinks it doesn't hurt to have an elastic put around a body part until it dies and falls off, needs to try putting an elastic around their finger and see how it feels... Necrotic tissue is so unbelievably painful...I've been through it. I can only hope they ban this way of castration sooner rather than later. I wish I could find the journal article I read where they assessed the different methods of castration and their degree of pain...rings were the worst by far.



One needs to keep in mind the body part, the size and method of application of the elastic.
A finger does not compare to a small scrotum on a less than month old animal ... there is bone involved and quite possibly the elastic will not constrict uniformly causing more discomfort and and a longer period to cut off the circulation/nerves. There is no comparison to the discomfort caused by using an elastic for docking a lambs tail as opposed to putting one on it's scrotum . No reaction to the scrotum application ... pretty significant to the docking

Comparing young animals to old .... in young animals circulation and nerves seem to be constricted very quickly when elastics are applied properly and testicles can generally be removed from lambs in 5-6 days with sufficient healing having occurred that there will be no blood loss even when the necrotic tissue below the constriction point and the elastic are removed ... while there might be a slight swelling of the tissue above the elastic in some cases the bulk of the necrotic tissue is below the elastic and if left just falls off.As you can imagine, to apply to an older animal constriction and atrophy time will be greater depending on size and I would expect with much greater chance of complications and discomfort.

The only lambs or calves that I have seen show any sign of discomfort when elastics were applied were when the elastics were not applied properly . The main cause of any pain issue I have seen is when the elastic is rolled off the applicator ... it rolls into the hair or wool and pulls causing obvious discomfort ... if the elastic is pushed off the applicator the animal will carry on with no obvious alteration to behavior.

A moot issue here though I would think because I don't expect they would work on horses of any age ... wink

It would be interesting to see those trials though ... the last one I saw was commenting on how the animals were still suffering a month and a half after application .... our calves were generally completely healed after a couple weeks so I'm assuming maybe it was one of those studies where they decide what they want to prove and then set the parameters accordingly. wink

eatdrink

Just curious .... what is the Lewellyn procedure? I can only find it with regard to respiratory issues ?
Top
#538597 - 10/06/13 07:33 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Strider]
L_Aird Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 06/17/07
Posts: 355
Loc: Newtonville
Originally Posted By: Strider
Originally Posted By: L_Aird


The other way to do it on older steers is to pinch....I am not a fan of this one. It is normally done on older boys when their testicles are too big to ring. Basically, a special pinching tool is used (almost like pliers) to squeeze the testicles as hard as possible....making them mush inside, I would assume. This definitely causes them a lot for distress.

Neither method uses sedation.


They don't crush the testicles. They apply the pliers above the testicles to crush the cords leading from the testicles . Like a vasectimy?? only the cords


my bad....I asked my husband, and he said the cords....when it's done, it looks like the sac being crushed, but it's not....thanks for clearing that up....although, that being said, it still causes a fair amount of pain at the time, and I much prefer the elastic method.

On a side note....when my hubby and I first got together, and he saw a horse being done....he asked me 'why don't you just ring them?' I have to admit I have wondered this myself after witnessing it being done on calves. I have helped him ring probably close to 100 calves since we've been together and not one (touch wood) has had an issue (ie. infection) with it being done.
Top
#538605 - 10/06/13 08:31 AM Re: Horses castrated with no sedation! [Re: Foxylady]
the sauce Offline
Grand Prix Member
Registered: 01/30/02
Posts: 1352
Loc: Toronto
The elastic around the finger was a bit tongue-in-cheek wink but fair enough re: bone vs. bone. But I still stand by my opinion that it's a cruel way of castrating (and yes I've done research and reading in to it) but that's just me!

Yes, Dr. Lewellyn basically just does two things now - a throat surgery and a gelding procedure, both of which he's refined and perfected. The way he described it to me was there's open castration (old way using imasulators), closed-closed castration (surgical where the horse is under general anesthetic and everything is closed up after) and open-closed (like closed-closed except in the incisions in the skin aren't sutured). He does open-closed and it's amazing to watch - the horse is down in the stall for maybe 30-45 minutes and it takes him all of 10 minutes to do. There is very very minimal swelling, no cleaning/cold hosing/walking, just one day stall rest and carry on...it's like nothing ever happened.
Top



Sponsors
Connect with us on:
Visit EMG on Facebook

Please Support our Gracious Sponsors.
RAM Equestrian Greenhawk
Horseware Ireland  Henry Equestrian Plan  Synoil
Albion Golf Cars  Alberta Premium  Bahr Saddlery
Best Western  Brooks Performance Feeds  Cairns
Champion Shavings  Coldwell Banker  CDW
Equestrian Factory Outlet  Equine Canada  Green Tractors    
HFH Inc.  Horse Sport  HorseSmart International    
IQ Footing  McKee Pownall  OHJA
Omega Alpha  PDI  Running Fox
Sierra Excavating  Stonewood Management  System Fence
 
Town of Caledon  Ampot Portable Toilets  Anteres Sellier France
Bucas  Richvale Saddlery  Long Run Thoroughbred Retirement
Nobleton Feed Mill  Bolton Electric  Monitoring Center
First Tier Medical Service
   
Ads By Google 1